Battery issue with 16,000 watt unit

[wilson]

Just installed a 16,000 WATT generator. The battery they recommend in the instalation manuel is impossible to find. Any others know where I could purchase battery online? I'm excited to have the generator work, just need battery :)
thanks for the help in advance.

[DAVECAD2.0]

You need to read the posts from Mikey and Davecad2.0 on the battery chargers. The older 12 and 15kw models circa 2004 have a dangerous way to charge the battery. Its a constant trickle. It never stops charging. If you aren't meticulus about checking the electrolyte level (monthly) they are prone to blowing up. This is not a defective battery issue! Its an overcharging issue.

[Bill Liedtke]

Kelly,

I posted two more exploding batteries that were brought to my attention by a generac elite dealer. My sense is that you either don't want to anger Generac or are in denial in spite of the facts. I took the time to write to Generac myself via their web page outlining that in just the few hundred people this forum reaches, there have been at least 8 examples of exploding batteries. Your comment is that you have done a thousand installs and never seen one example of this. That doesn't mean it isn't real and very possibly it happened to unit you sold, but just never heard about because everyone thinks their case may be the only one! The more people can come together and share stories, the more the story is starting to repeat itself. Besides that, unless Generac can tell us that their charger circuit cuts back charge based upon battery voltage, they have a flawed circuit. All someone has to do is tell us why this ain't possible. You could be that guy or you could be the guy that tells us that Generac says it can be so and what models are afrfected and what can be done before someone gets hurt. My dealer had it happen to his tech while he was working on a unit.

You could be the messenger and as such we won't "shoot you", but so far you have remained strangly mute on this issue.

Bill

[Kelly Myers]

Kelly,

I posted two more exploding batteries that were brought to my attention by a generac elite dealer. My sense is that you either don't want to anger Generac or are in denial in spite of the facts. I took the time to write to Generac myself via their web page outlining that in just the few hundred people this forum reaches, there have been at least 8 examples of exploding batteries. Your comment is that you have done a thousand installs and never seen one example of this. That doesn't mean it isn't real and very possibly it happened to unit you sold, but just never heard about because everyone thinks their case may be the only one! The more people can come together and share stories, the more the story is starting to repeat itself. Besides that, unless Generac can tell us that their charger circuit cuts back charge based upon battery voltage, they have a flawed circuit. All someone has to do is tell us why this ain't possible. You could be that guy or you could be the guy that tells us that Generac says it can be so and what models are afrfected and what can be done before someone gets hurt. My dealer had it happen to his tech while he was working on a unit.

You could be the messenger and as such we won't "shoot you", but so far you have remained strangly mute on this issue.

Bill

I passed on the info to generac as soon as I became aware of it. Believe me, I'm not scared of telling them my opinion.

All I know, is that the battery charger is a float type, which shouldn't allow batteries to be overcharged. Its a VERY low amp charge, which is why I'm at a loss. Its just crazy that myself, or the other two "real" dealers here in Michigan are not having any issues with batteries. Maybe because of our climate here, or maybe a large batch of defective battery chargers were sent out and I just happened to luck out and not purchase from that batch. :confused:

[M Miller]

I just had my generator installed on Thursday. After seeing this post I asked my dealer if he had seen any generators where the battery exploded. He said he had seen a couple and had to neutralize the acid in the cabinet with baking soda.

My question is would a maintenance free battery or even an AGM one be better in that they use a recumbent technology to reduce or eliminate the gassing when charging?

[Bill Liedtke]

Kelly,

I have not received a response from Generac. I Have received a reply from you which I think is "stand-up" and great since you are just the messenger in this issue. I think it would be great if Generac put their response in writing and sent it to you so that you could post it to the forum. There are simply too many "coincidences" here. For the previous poster, it would be my belief that regardless of maintenance free or not, *IF* the generac is not rolling-off the current as the battery reaches its saturated state, then it will fail just the same as a battery with caps. They are all vented, it's just that you can't add acid to the mtce-free or water.

I am going to take a current meter to mine and see how much voltage and current the charger is putting out at day 6 of the exercise cycle, but my model may not be representative of all.

Kelly, can you get Generac to issue a formal response to our concerns? If not, the next question is why not?

Bill

[M Miller]

Yes they are all vented but the maintenance free recovers almost all of the gas and turns it back into liquid with very little venting. This is why you don't need to (and can't) add water. All batteries will boil some when charging and this gas in a enclosed area with only minimal outside venting can accumulate and explode with a spark. It just seems to me a maintenance free battery would be better. This doesn't mean there might be a design flaw with over charging or a space that is to enclosed, but lacking a response or work around a maintenance free battery might be the best solution at this time. Just my thoughts.

[M Miller]

Some interesting reading here about batteries. http://www.batteryfaq.org/

Below is an excerpt from section 14.3

The most probable cause of internal battery explosions are from a combination of low electrolyte levels below the plates in the battery, a low resistance bridge is formed between or across the top of the plates, and a build up of hydrogen gas in the cell. The low resistive bridge is called "treeing" between the positive and negative plates. When current flows in the battery, a spark occurs and ignites the residual gas in one or more of the cells.

[Bill Liedtke]

So, would an older style vented battery have more or less gas *possibly* accumulating in or around the cells?

I have absolutely np problem deferring to another point of view more accurate than mine! I tip my hat miller if this is a work-a-round, I really do. So, I salute you and apologize if I gave an answer that mis-directed the poster. I know one thing for sure, I have a great deal of respect for a battery charger called the "battery tender". It is not cheap. If you find what you think is the same thing and it sells for about 25 bucks or less, take a pass and keep looking. The tender will run about twice that but is worth every penny in my opinion. I store 3 corvettes all winter and each one has a battery tender on it. They will not cook a battery! You could disconnect the internal charger and use this instead.

Bill

[M Miller]

I guess we are talking about two possible sources for an explosion. Gases in the cabinet that could ignite and spread into the battery and cause it to explode if that is possible, or the internal arching from low electrolyte levels exposing the plates as mentioned in the article. I suspect the later is the most probable cause and maybe those that have experienced an explosion have not maintained their batteries, or Generac has an issue where the charger can cook the battery and boils out all of the electrolyte exposing the plates. An AGM battery like the Optima or a regular maintenance free battery would help with the lack of maintenance but not with over charging.

I agree with you on a quality charger. As an avid bass fisherman and bass boat owner for many years I have used a number of battery types and high end chargers for my trolling motor batteries. Battery brands, types and chargers is one of the most talked about issues on the fishing forums I frequent with little agreement about which ones are better.

I also thought about replacing the charger in the generator with a better one. My dealer said the the charger worked off of 240 volts. In looking at the wiring schematic in the manual it appears he is correct. I think the generator also has an alarm for a bad battery so I don't know how that would be affected.

Maybe someone will give us the answers.

[Bill Liedtke]

p.s. I LOVE this board! Good job getting it rolling Kelly.

Bill

[Mikey]

I'm an old car and motorcycle nut. I have several Battery Tenders and they really work well. Shop around and you can get them online for about 40 to 45 bucks. If you were to open a Batttey Tender case, remove the transformer, connect the 16 volts that Generac sends to their onboard charger circuit to the better designed charger circuit from the Battery Tender, you would then have a "smart" charger in your generator. I plan to do this after I get my stator fixed or replaced. I only like to make one change at a time to prevent confusing myself if something doesn't work right when I'm done. This fifty dollar mod is definitely worth trying on a three thousand dollar generator.

[Bill Liedtke]

I believe the Generac gets 110V from the house just to "sample" the utility power It admittedly is a small gauge wire in the small bundle, but considering what the battery tender needs in the way of current you might find a way to not have to butcher your perfectly good tender- just a thought. I might be mistaken on this, but I believe it is so. If either case, your idea is solid!

Bill

[Kelly Myers]

I believe the Generac gets 110V from the house just to "sample" the utility power It admittedly is a small gauge wire in the small bundle, but considering what the battery tender needs in the way of current you might find a way to not have to butcher your perfectly good tender- just a thought. I might be mistaken on this, but I believe it is so. If either case, your idea is solid!

Bill

the current sensing wires are n1/n2. This delivers 240v to the generator from the transfer switch for the monitoring of utility oiwer. This 240 is stepped down to 16VAC. 16VAC is used to power the battery charger. The problem is, there is no neutral going to the generator. If you were to take the main neutral from the generator to the service panel, you will run into code issues.

[Bill Liedtke]

Yes Kelly, of course it is both legs being looked at, but I thought you could take 1 leg and the neutral. If there is no neutral then I guess that shoots that. Obviouisly the 16VAC is the way to go, but I hate to see a good battery tender get the axe!

Miller, do you have an ammeter to measure what the charging cfircuit on the generac is putting to the battery and also the voltage- without the battery hooked up of course as that will just make the voltage be whatever the battery is. It wouldn't hurt to see what it is with the battery hooked up though.

Bill

[M Miller]

My generator is installed but not started up yet as I'm waiting on the gas company to change the meter. Per the diagnostic manual on Guardian's site the charging amps is from .5 to 2.0 depending on the condition (charge?) of the battery.

[Rob]

A first hand account and analysis of a standby generator battery exploding appears in the October issue of QST, published by the American Radio Relay League ("Keeping Safe with Generators and Starting Batteries", Vol. 91:10, 2007, page 59). The report was written by Clarence (Barney) Williams, KD4IPN, and describes his experience with maintaining equipment at cell phone sites. In manually starting one generator, the battery exploded like a bomb. The author was fortunate to avoid acid burns, but has yet to recover from hearing loss caused by the explosion. His analysis of the cause of the problem indicated that the generator utilized a brute force charger that will continue to charge a battery that has already reached its float level. This continuous overcharging results in a slow boiling away of the electrolyte and formation of hydrogen and oxygen gases in the cells. When the generator is started a large current is required. This results in heat being generated within the battery with risk of explosion. The author lists several steps an operator can do to minimize risk: (1) Wear eye, ear, and other recommended protection; (2) Take the generator out of automatic mode so that it will not start before you are ready; (3) Check electrolyte levels and replenish with distilled water if needed; and (4) Start the generator from a safe distance. Manufacturers of standby generators can reduce risks of exploding batteries by installing true smart chargers on their equipment. In private exchange with the author, he recommended limiting the charging voltage on 12.6 volt batteries to 12.8 to 13.2 vdc, rather than 14.4 to 16 vdc. As the use of standby generators increase, safety issues should and will face increased scrutiny. I anticipate that QST will publish further technical communication on this topic in the future.

[Bill Liedtke]

Hello Rob from N9BTU! I get QST being an ARRL member, but must admit if it was in the last issue that arrived about a week ago- I missed it. Great of you to share with the forum. I will be checking my battery this weekend for voltage out of the charger and current constantly put into a "full" battery.

I am very, very disappointed in Generac. If the information that Kelly shared with us about how Generac designed their charger is true, then they should be the first in line to defend themselves and their design. The fact that they have not responded to my personal letter to them regarding this as well as their silence to this forum regarding the same topic, tells me they don't know what to do. I guess they are happy to let Kelly answer for them.

Kelly, I think you need to share this thread in its entirety with Generac and due to the serious nature of the issue insist that they respond. If someone were to get hurt after all this has been brought to their attention- they will be in a serious world of hurt. Openness and honesty is always the best policy and time thinking about what to do can only increase a user's risk.

Bill

[Bill Liedtke]

Late breaking news!!!! Generac reports that this whole thing is a conspiracy and that no battery has ever exploded in one of their units and we should immediately stop all this whining.

[Mikey]

Apparently the second shooter (from the grassy knoll) has sabotaged numerous Generac generator batteries using a stealth hydrogen projector (reverse engineered from stolen area 51 artifacts). One day he will be caught and the Generac folks will be exonerated. Have faith.

[Kelly Myers]

Late breaking news!!!! Generac reports that this whole thing is a conspiracy and that no battery has ever exploded in one of their units and we should immediately stop all this whining.

Did they really say that?

[Bill Liedtke]

No Kelly, Generac did not actually say that! However, because Generac has said absolutely nothing to me (I wrote to them twice via their own web site "contact us" link) or to this board in writing directly, I feel that they are open to some serious criticism in the form of sarcasm- or seriousness. Apparently others feel the same way and maybe we will "shame them" into addressing this concern directly and not through you as a messenger. This is a potentially serious issue which deserves either acceptance that there is a problem and how to best address it or a denial of any possibility of a design connection between their equipment and close to a dozen battery explosions that share this forum as a link.

If even 1% of Generac standby system owners belong to this forum (despite your great efforts Kelly, that would be a stretch) we could be looking at hundreds and hundreds of explosions already with potentially how many yet to happen? If Generac is certain that their charging system could not boil the electrolyte out of a battery then they should come forward and say so in no uncertain terms. Would you agree?

Bill

[Kelly Myers]

No Kelly, Generac did not actually say that! However, because Generac has said absolutely nothing to me (I wrote to them twice via their own web site "contact us" link) or to this board in writing directly, I feel that they are open to some serious criticism in the form of sarcasm- or seriousness. Apparently others feel the same way and maybe we will "shame them" into addressing this concern directly and not through you as a messenger. This is a potentially serious issue which deserves either acceptance that there is a problem and how to best address it or a denial of any possibility of a design connection between their equipment and close to a dozen battery explosions that share this forum as a link.

If even 1% of Generac standby system owners belong to this forum (despite your great efforts Kelly, that would be a stretch) we could be looking at hundreds and hundreds of explosions already with potentially how many yet to happen? If Generac is certain that their charging system could not boil the electrolyte out of a battery then they should come forward and say so in no uncertain terms. Would you agree?

Bill

Well, you have to remember two things:

1. There is WAY less then 1% of guardian owners here. Remember, Generac is whipping outs 10,000's of thousands of generators a month.

2. 99% of people who seek information online are doing so because they have an issue with their generator. For the most part people will not spend time on these forums to preach about their quality generator.

I've been around online forums for close to 10 years now, Way back to the bulletin board systems on 2400 baud modems. Ever since the dawn of the internet how we know it, it has been a place for people with problems to seem information.

If 10 people have had problems with their generator battery chargers, and there are 800,000 generators out there, I would not consider this a problem.

We will see over time what comes out of this, but like I have said before, we have had ZERO issues with this locally.

[Bill Liedtke]

Sorry Kelly., I agree with all of your general assesments of forums, who frequents them, etc. But, I don't agree with your logic. If 1/100% of Generac owners come to this net and just a couple forum members who don't know each other and have personal knowledge or gotten it from Generac's own dealers have had batteries explode, then I say you have a potentially huge problem! Look at it this way Kelly, If you went to a small town of 500 people and found out that 10 of them who did not know each other even existed had a very rare form of cancer, what are the chances you just stumbled on the only folks so afflicted?

When I asked an elite Generac dealer if he had ever had thishappen to one of his customers and he said "Yes, two" do you think every customer he sold a unit told him about the problem if they too had it, and if he has had two- others have too. Just because Ziller hasn't seen it, that doesn't mean it isn't real. Like I said, I will gather the information with my own readings and see what's what for myself. I bet the unloaded voltage is high and the trickle voltage is too high as well. If I am wrong, I won't be like Generac- I'll come back on here and admit I was wrong. It also may be only certain models.

I really WANT to be wrong Kelly, but Generac isn't responding thus far.

Bill

p.s. I love my Generac when it is working a LOT and I like their warrantee policy and have said so here before-many times.

[Bill Liedtke]

I have received two pieces of correspondence from Generac today. They have the information they requested and have been given the link to this forum. I believe they will give us their best advice. If you have posted about a battery issue and have not provided a model number or serial number, please post this. If you can't get this for any reason, supply the size of the unit and about when they were purchased so Generac can figure out if there are only certain models this has definitely happen to or what.

Bill

P.S. I for one would hope that Generac supplies the parameters they believe are appropriate for this purpose. I.e. what voltage is best unloaded and minimal current applied at what voltage they would consider the battery to be fully charged. This will help.

[Bei46321]

Hi all,
Here it is March of 2008. Where is Generac's definitive answer on this topic? Mr. Liedtke did you run your tests? If so what did you find out?
William

[Bill Liedtke]

William,

Yes, I have measured the charge current at between .2-.3 amps at all times (minimal). The charger does not even appear to go into a constant voltage mode. Therefore, it basically "trickles" your battery to death. If you don't have a maintainable battery, you are screwed The maintenance-free batteries keep you from adding or even seeing the water level. So, therefore you have no clue when you are low. One the plates are no longer covered, you have a potential source of the needed spark. A timer would be a huge
help. Generac has never shown any interest in stating their side nor have any of their agents. We are on our own. Hopefully no one gets seriously injured.

Bill

[Gentleman]

Bill:

I installed a 5243 on 01/2007 with a maintenance free battery unfortunately, and I'd like some advice on taking that battery out of service "safely" should it become a problem.

I want to purchase and install a maintainable battery in a marine enclosure outside of the generator housing.

Any advice on the proceedure for removing from service the currently installed battery would be utmost appreciated.

Thank you.

[Bill Liedtke]

Throw the main breaker on the unit itself. You may also disconnect the lighter gauge wires if you wish that lead from the transfer switch to the generator. In doing this, you have safely isolated the Generac from all voltage sources. Wait at least and hour. Wearing goggles and gloves, disconnect and remove the battery. You likely can use the battery in one of your vehicles. I still suggest you write to Generac and get their answer in writing. The fact that you are early in the process, you should be fine, but when you are giving advice that regards someone's health other than your own because the manufacturer refuses to comment, it is a tough deal. It is amazing to me that Generac has chosen to not even issue a statement denying that any liability exists.

I can only assume they got an attorney who advised them to ignore and deny everything and eventually we will all die or otherwise go away.

Bill

[Kelly Myers]

Hey, Welcome back Bill. :D I thought you might have fell victim to an exploding battery

[Bill Liedtke]

Hah, I'm glad to see your sense of humor is intact! I just looked down the posts one day and saw that so many had my name on them that I should shut up and listen rather than talk! Also, we seem to have gotten so great young members on the forum who are no slouches-that's for sure.

Kelly, I forget...is the 120V outlet on the outside of a 4390 (just for example) HOT all the time or just when the generator is running? I obviously could check myself, but the question concerns you as well, so I just remembered it.

Bill

p.s. Glad we're "ok" ;)

[Kelly Myers]

That plug is only hot when the generator is running.

[Kelly Myers]

Generac released this PIB last month:

http://zillerelectric.com/images/battery.pdf

[Bill Liedtke]

This bulletin is a boilerplate-type response which acknowledges that they know an issue is swirling around, but addresses nothing relative to:

How does their charging circuit operate? What is the lowest current it will deliver and at what voltage will it deliver it?

How does this address maintenance-free batteries that are low because of the charging voltage? An owner can not see the electrolyte level.

Generac just doesn't get it and the under-whelming response to your post Kelly should telegraph the enthusiasm felt by the forum community. How is the non-forum member supposed to receive this magnificent document?
How did it come to your attention Kelly and what is the chance that the average owner will similarly find this document? Generac missed a golden opportunity to show any degree of customer service.

I feel sorry for anyone hit by a stray bullet, but I have no sympathy for someone who shoots themself in the butt.

[2fast2]

Hi.

I'm a brand new forum member. I just discovered this site after searching for some information regarding my guardian 4390-3 because the battery exploded. Funny, but I've had this machine (with a quality, maintenance free battery) for three years this month. I actually convinced a friend who was also building a new house to buy this exact same model, and his battery blew up last year!

Luckily nobody was injured in either case, and after extensive clean up and battery replacement, both units are back in service.

Now I've learned that this is a design defect due to the type of charging which boils away the electrolyte until the battery produces hydrogen gas which explodes from a spark.

I called generac, but that is one UNFRIENDLY business. Shameful. Some woman in "customer service" told me I was supposed to use a non-maintenance free battery and check the electrolyte levels regularly. Actually, it says nothing like that in my owner's manual nor in the service bulletin from early this year.

So I called a guardian dealer / service center in a nearby town and had a nice conversation with them. They say it is quite common for the batteries to blow up and they recommend replacing them every two or three years (I'd have to say two since mine blew in three and my buddy's blew in just over two.) They said they do all the service on well over one hundred of these generators that the phone company uses, and they've switched to spiral wound batteries like the optima to try to decrease the incidence of explosions. They said those batteries are much more expensive and might be justifiable for a business with many units, but maybe the homeowner would be better served with a standard battery.

So today I learned you can remove the caps from the Autozone maintenance free battery to top it with distilled water.

I wish someone could tell me how to eliminate the trickle charger guardian provides, and use a battery tender plus model instead. The guys at the local service are not aware of how to do this because they said the battery tender would need to disconnect when the generator started.

So, the short term "fix" is spending a lot more time and attention with the battery keeping it topped up with distilled water. The ultimate fix would be substituting a good charger with a float function.

Jim

[2fast2]

BTW Bill, I went to Valpo for undergrad, class of 81!

Jim

[Bill Liedtke]

Welcome to a great forum with the exception of the lack of respect it gets from Generac. Unfortunately, it appears it will take someone getting seriously hurt to possibly get them to admit/address this in a responsible manner. I suspect they may be in litigation as we converse and that is why they are hesitant to make any serious, responsible comments. I find their actions totally indefensible, irresponsible, and totally 180 degrees from how other companies have faced-up to their problems. I judge a company by how it conducts itself in difficult times...any company can perform in good times.
This situation will be the demise of Generac at some point. It is a shame as they have a decent product otherwise.

I see no reason why you would need to disconnect the battery tender while the unit is running. A diode could be placed in the positive lead from the charger which should block current from flowing backwards. I suspect the way the tender is made they already have a blocking diode inside.

I have a 4390-3 with a mtce. free battery and mine has not exploded yet. I can not add water to mine unless I drill the top cap and no way am I doing that! My question of Kelly would be does he think a battery charger plugged into the aux. 110V. outlet on the generator running every week at exercise would be enough to keep the battery up? I think it would work with a cheap 6-12 amp charger. Consider that route and disconnect the internal charger. Wonder if a 13V or 14V Zener diode could effectively put a cut off on the internal charger? Anyway, add two more exploding batteries to a problem which Generac fails to acknowledge properly. I have no idea who received their memo above that Kelly re-printed, but I guarantee you I never got one so likely only their service network got it. That's a big help to DIY'ers.

Anyway, welcome and read as much as you can digest.

Bill

[fara macho]

Bill, et al. You may find it interesting that talk show host Bruce Williams was talking the other day about a strange occurence at his house.... his battery on his generator expolded. it took a few days to find what he had heard exploding but was amazed when he found it to be his battery. he never stated whether it was a Generac, but one would suspect ... Bruce Williams has one of the highest audience listener numbers in talk radio (millions of listeners and many radio stations) ie alot of political pull/power sm

[pcfrisch]

As an FYI, I found water proof plastic battery holders at Cabella's that probably would be perfect to store your battery outside of the generator unit.
They have a easy removable lid with a molded area for the wires.
They are pretty large so you could even get away with a larger battery than would fit in the unit.

[Bill Liedtke]

The "easily removable lid" will come in handy when the battery explodes =(
The battery does not have to be in the unit to explode as it can created its own spark if the electrlyte level drops enough. You will have less of a mess the clean up, I suppose.

[pcfrisch]

The "easily removable lid" will come in handy when the battery explodes =(
The battery does not have to be in the unit to explode as it can created its own spark if the electrlyte level drops enough. You will have less of a mess the clean up, I suppose.

True, but the inside of your generator won't be bathed in acid.
How about a parachute on the lid so it floats gently down. :D

[Bill Liedtke]

True, but the inside of your generator won't be bathed in acid.
How about a parachute on the lid so it floats gently down. :D

I'm glad you took my response the way you did! Actually, there are truly several very good reasons to move the battery outside and you hit on one of the best. There are some that believe the proximity of the battery to a potential spark source is why they explode. There is some validity here too. Not totally (in my opinion), but certainly a contributing factor. Last, but certainly not least is that with the battery being more easily accessible, the owner is more likely to inspect and check it more often so this alone is a great thing. Anything that will get the owner to keep an eye on the electrolyte level is a very good thing.

I like your use of humor and maybe that is the way to get Generac to deal with their responsibility. If we poke enough "fun" onto a very serious issue, maybe we can shame them into doing the next right thing. We teach young children to always do the right thing, but apparently when you get enough children together such that they become a company, it is too easy to NOT do the right thing because there are so many other children to blame it on! I think in other settings they might call this a gang.

Make sure when you check the battery that you throw the main breaker inside the generator and wait 10-15 minutes before approaching the battery and whatever you do, wear goggles. A hose nearby to act as an eye wash would not be overkill.

Bill

[Kelly Myers]

http://zillerelectric.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357

[Bill Liedtke]

Kelly,

First, thank you for responding. Second, I think this is a big step in doing the right thing. I'm just not sure what I'm reading. Help me here please. Is this a standard feature now on all new generacs? What about older units, will they provide it free of charge with instructions for install on your particular model?

I suspect (tell me if I'm wrong) that this constitutes no admission that there was a defect previous, but should allay the fears of those who are concerned.
It can be used on older units at the owners cost-again, because Generac does not believe there truly is a problem that they MAY have caused. Is this a fair statement? What prompted this, is it now standard, and what does this charger do that the internal one didn't? I realize you are in a tough position, but please say what you can and we can infer the rest. How much to buy one for say a 4390-3? THANK YOU KELLY!!!!!!!! And THANK YOU GENERAC

Bill

[pcfrisch]

Just looking at my generator manual (04675-0) section 1.11 page 9. Under "The Battery" it says: "When using a maintenance free battery, it is not necessary to check the specific gravity or electrolyte level". Again in section 4.13 Service Schedule on page 22 under the battery section it says check the electrolyte level ever 6 months (unsealed batteries only).
Isn't that interesting?
I would think it really should say, "do not use a maintenance free battery", the electrolyte must be checked......
It really would be nice if we can swap these chargers with the new ones.

[Bill Liedtke]

I could not agree with you more, but we seem to be the only ones that see this as a problem..

[2fast2]

Has anyone heard a reply to post 45? I'm still wondering about some kind of retrofit to keep me from another battery explosion.

[Bill Liedtke]

Well, I have not! Kelly, we need ya man. Please the last half dozen posts or so and fill in the blanks. We appreciate the information, but you created more questions than you answered!

Bill

[Bill Liedtke]

Well, I guess Kelly has chosen not to respond to what he threw out there which is too bad, but another concerned individual just took the time to email me that Generac has decided to use a timer-controlled trickle charger on their 2008 models! Very cool! Thanks for advising me. Now, if Kelly or Generac, who I hear monitors this forum, would finish the story Kelly started and tell us what the deal is with their new charger we would know what all us older unit owners should do. I fear that Generac is afraid that anything they say will be used against them. It's a sad-but true-commentary about today's litigeous society. Plus, they could end up the defendant in a case that truly has merit without saying anything, so I guess they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It comes down in my mind to doing whatever is the next right thing..

Thanks for the heads-up S. Griff.

[gordon m]

In the 5 yrs i have been a service tech on guardian generators the only problem i have seen with the batterys exploding is units that have batterys 3 years old an not maintained.we have over 200 units on service contracts.I have not seen any problems on new units. thats not to say it cant happen.

[Bill Liedtke]

thats not to say it cant happen.


Gordon,

It's good you feel that way because it quite obviously can and does happen to lots of folks. Did you read the entire thread? Are you aware Generac has come out with a new charger to replace the internal one? Kelly "threatened to tell us all about it" weeks ago, but has not. Maybe you can tell us why it is out, who it is for, and how much it costs??

http://zillerelectric.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357 or see Kelly's post of 6-03-08

One part of your comment intrigues me..the part where you imply that batterys three years old or more that are not maintained- explode like that is to be expected. Am I reading more into your comment than you intended? Most batteries sold these days are maintenance-free and three years is not a long time at all. How many batteries in automobiles are over three years old and are similarly maintenance-free. I think if they exploded in the same percentage as the batteries in the 2 or 3 yr. old Generacs something would have been done long ago. Everyone hopes this will just "go away" and I do to before more people are seriously hurt, like the elite dealer in Michigan City who has had two blow up while his tech was looking at the units. This is a very serious matter-just look at the number of people who have read this one single topic. New units are improved I am sure, but the have one helluva lot of 4390's (as an example) still out there and in use every day.

Bill

[Bill Liedtke]

To the top to remind those of how old this issue is...