Starter problem

[mjsvair]

I'm wondering if anyone else out there has recently had a starter get fried. Our 1 year old 7KW has been working fine since last January 2008 (we had a starter issue then, but thought it was resolved). It has started each week for the test, and also kicked on & off correctly during about 5 or 6 power outages throughout the year. Last Friday at the test time the generator didn't start. It was about 27 degrees below zero, plus wind chills to around 40 below. Yes, very cold...thank heaven no power outage then!! When my husband checked it the starter was actually smoking. Battery had a full charge. A service tech for Guardian just left this afternoon after having replaced the starter. He said he was replacing five today!!! Is this just a local issue (Iowa), or have others had this problem elsewhere? Jackie

[ohmslaw]

I would fire that technician!

[pcfrisch]

You are using synthetic oil right?

[SteveInMD]

I'm not sure if it's the same starter, but my 15 Kw's starter would not engage properly. It seems others have had the same problem here. From what I've seen the OEM starters are a repairman's dream come true.

[mjsvair]

To pcfrisch, no we didn't have synthetic oil (duh..should have) in the generator, so thanks for mentioning... that will be corrected soon. However that was not the problem, guess I should have elaborated a bit more. The problem we had when first installed a year ago was the bendix was not coming out to engage. Tech came, checked it...cleared out a bunch of the grease packed into the bendix then it started... it was like it was gummed up. Everything was fine until last week. Anyway, replaced the starter this time and it started just fine then and on it's test this week. It's still under warranty, so no cost. I don't know what the problem was with the other starters he was replacing that day, but I may call the service manager back & ask if it was the bendix problem with those also.
To SteveInMD, I was told by the service manager, they'd seen several of the starters in 7KW (what we have...natural gas) and 10KW units have this problem, but he didn't mention 15KW...but who knows. They may not service many of those? It sounds like you could very well have the same problem, but what do I know! You may check the bendix also to see if it's "gummy" and not allowing it to engage.

[DanB]

I thought I saw somewhere that Ziller had some heavy duty replacement starters available (not Generac OEM). Not sure though.

If its a common problem, you may want to see if you have a local shop doing alternator/starter rebuilds in your area (check the auto parts stores). If so, they may be able to either cross reference your starter to a better starter, or rebuild it to make it better (many times rebuilds are better than new as mfg defects are corrected during rebuild).

[pcfrisch]

The same thing happend to me a couple years after I had the generator. The new starter is actually smaller than the original. It has lasted 4 years now. The new starter does not have the mounting bracket in the back.
0E42710SRV Generac

[ran007]

Does it look like this one? This is the 3rd one on my 5336 (liquid cooled) - it seems to be working very well.

http://gallery.me.com/randall.reed/100055/DSC_6477/web.jpg

[MacMan]

...... you may want to see if you have a local shop doing alternator/starter rebuilds in your area (check the auto parts stores). If so, they may be able to either cross reference your starter to a better starter, or rebuild it to make it better (many times rebuilds are better than new as mfg defects are corrected during rebuild).

Replaced my starter on my 12Kw unit after i got advice from members on this forum that I'd be better off....they were right. Just for the heck of it, I took the old one to the local starter/generator repair place, figuring that if they could rebuild it for a decent price, I'd have a spare. Quoted me $90+ to rebuild.......wasn't worth it, as I bought the new one for about $110. Yep, it's the smaller one w/o the 3rd attachment lug, and it starts the unit no problem.

EDIT: Just remembered something else....when he looked at the starter, he tried to find info (model #, manufacturer, etc) but there was nothing on the OEM Generac starter.....so he couldn't even cross reference it.....he said that was weird.

[pcfrisch]

Replaced my starter on my 12Kw unit after i got advice from members on this forum that I'd be better off....they were right. Just for the heck of it, I took the old one to the local starter/generator repair place, figuring that if they could rebuild it for a decent price, I'd have a spare. Quoted me $90+ to rebuild.......wasn't worth it, as I bought the new one for about $110. Yep, it's the smaller one w/o the 3rd attachment lug, and it starts the unit no problem.

EDIT: Just remember something else....when he looked at the starter, he tried to find info (model #, manufacturer, etc) but there was nothing on the OEM Generac starter.....so he couldn't even cross reference it.....he said that was weird.
That is about the price I paid for mine. The price variations on these are ridiculous.
The place I bought mine from says it is a Delco.

[dgree]

Well mine fried last weekend -5 below. My second starter. You'll read it in another post. Yes I'm using synthetic oil. After diagnosing and replacing the voltage regulator. I pulled my utility electric meter and ran the generator under load for about 45 minutes. The most draw I saw was 30 amps. It did over rev once for maybe 3 seconds, thats when the toaster or coffee maker shut off. Everything seemed to worked like clockwork. From start up to shut down.

After buttoning everything up I went to set the weekly exercise and nothing, just the starter relay kicking in. I had the starter out and on the bench in 15 minutes. The motor is either burn't or seized gears.

The generator was installed 10/06, starter replaced 8/07 and now 1/25/09 needs another starter???

How to find the problem. The bendix gears do look worn, just on there tips. But when the generator was running it didn't sound like the starter was still engaged? Actually the generator sounded nice and smooth.

I heard Generac starter's matches a Saturn style automotive starter. I'll be bringing both starters to a repair shop hoping he can make 1 good one out of 2.

I'm not all that happy, but would still recommend a Generac.

0052840 16kw propane

[johnc]

i got a 4390 13kw ng. how much better are the new starters than the originals? hate to wait for a part to fail if it has a high failure rate.

[pcfrisch]

i got a 4390 13kw ng. how much better are the new starters than the originals? hate to wait for a part to fail if it has a high failure rate.

Pretty reliable on mine so far. My engine takes the same starter as yours and so far almost 4 years on the new one.
From what I understand there was a bad "batch" of them early on.

[ran007]

There had to have been a bad batch back in late '06. Just be aware, and keep a new one on hand... Mine exercised every time and then burned out after 3 days of solid IKE. I Shut it down to replace the oil. Tried to start back up, but nothing. Replaced it, ran for 2 more days. I shut it down to add oil. Tried to start it again, nothing... dead. The new one (seen earlier in this thread) is way different than the first two. But by this time power was restored, so I didn't have the real opportunity to fire it back up to run for a few more days... Just weekly exercises since IKE.

[johnc]

007: how could the starter go bad with the genny running continuously? was it electrical or gear failure? did you buy an oem or get a cross from an auto parts store?

[ran007]

My question exactly -I don't know how it could go bad. The solenoid just stopped working in both cases. I had generac replace them both.

[DanB]

probably some kind of heat or vibration defect.

[ran007]

probably some kind of heat or vibration defect.

Interesting - It makes sense because the first two went bad when there was a real load for a 2 day extended period.

[SteveInMD]

My starter would motor would run just fine. It failed to engage the ring gear properly.

Don't forget to disconnect the battery AND pull the two fuses on the panel when replacing the starter!

[rhombixt]

The starter from mine actually ripped itself apart, well mostly the bracket connecting it to the gen board.. that was back in '06. Now it just loosens itself from time to time but my issue is it will not start in exteme cold... see my post in low temp starting... i need a hand with my issue.