5416 failed to start: -7°F and snow blown inside battery compartment.

[SkipD]

To the folks with experience troubleshooting:

My 5416 (16KW on Natural gas, never a problem until now) failed to start this morning. The temp outside is at -7°F, and I found the battery/regulator compartment filled with powdery snow. There's been a 30MPH wind blowing right into the air intake end of the unit, which is why the snow was in there. The battery had snow covering it from terminal to terminal and the gas pressure regulator was fairly well covered with snow.

The battery was strong enough to turn the unit over in manual mode, but not quite as well as in the summer of course. I was able to make it turn over several times, but it wouldn't start until I used a hair dryer to melt the snow off the top of the battery and warm the gas pressure regulator (melting snow off it too).

What's the likely problem? Stiff elements such as diaphragm in the gasw pressure regulator? Snow covering a vent hole or something like that? Possibly low battery voltage (I didn't measure it but will in another day or so)? Other ideas?

I have propped a board in front of the air intake area, at an angle that will allow plenty of air to enter for cooling but so that the wind that's blowing straight at the end won't jam it full of snow again. I may want to create a baffle for permanent use sometime later.

[MacMan]

Hey Skip,

considering how cold it's been where you are, I might tend to think battery voltage.

The same thing happens in cars....a weak or under charged battery will not start the car due to the low temp. Just what you are experiencing is why I bought the ThermoCube unit and battery warmer blanket.

Of course, the snow blowing into the control panel/battery compartment isn't helping matters any, but unless it was shorting something out, I would tend to think that''s not the problem....placing the "shield" there is a good idea, in any event.

If you find it's a weak battery, and are interested in getting the ThermoCube and battery blanket that I did, PM me and i'll tell you where I got them and how much $.

[SkipD]

Followup:

After getting the rig to start the first time (cleaning 1" of snow off the battery, warming the regulator to melt snow off it, hooking up a bigger charger than my float charger for a few minutes, etc., and adding a 2x2-foot board outside to block the wind from blowing snow into the intake louvers), I've been able to start the engine normally twice - once about an hour after the first time I got it going and then shut it down, and the second time after about four hours of "cooling off" in the sub-zero wind.

Tomorrow morning will be the real test.

I have ordered a battery warmer just for the extra edge that it may provide.

[SkipD]

2nd followup:

This morning (the next day from above) the generator started on the very first try.

Does anyone have intimate knowledge of the gas regulator's construction to tell me why snow all over it MAY have been the cause of the problem?

Or... Does anyone have any better ideas about what could have caused the failure to start yesterday? I suspect it may have been low voltage due to the snow bridging the battery terminals, but the engine did spin reasonably fast while still not starting even before I cleaned the snow off the battery.

Today's temperature is still sub-zero (-2°F when I started it this morning), so I doubt that outdoor temperature itself had much to do with the problem.

[Namvet34]

Skip,

While I can't specifically answer your question I do have something to add to this thread. I live in NW Indiana and our temperatures are very similar right now to what you're experiencing. Last night, after having read your post, I went outside to inspect my generator and found that the lock was impacted with ice due to the high winds and freezing rains that we've been had. I also used a hair dryer, but I used mine to thaw the lock so I could open the generator compartment. I wanted to try to manually exercise my 10Kw model 5241 generator since I was concerned about its ability to start in these very low temperatures. It did start.

When I thawed the lock, I knew it would leave residual water inside of the lock and so I used pipe cleaners and inserted them into the lock to absorb and remove as much of the water as possible. I then injected a teflon based lock lubricant into the key slot to displace the remaining water and lubricate the lock mechanism. A note of caution here. If you lubricate your locks, whether on the generator or elsewhere, do NOT use a silicone base lubricant. It will end up creating more problems than it solves. Use one with a teflon base as teflon is a 'dry' lubricant.

After test running the generator I attempted to relock the genset cabinet and although I was able to easily insert the key due to the lubricant, the inner ring (the circular piece where the key is inserted) had frozen to the outer ring in which it is mounted. I left mine unlocked. Hopefully this information can help to prevent problems for anyone else who is having to contend with these arctic temperatures. When things warm up I'll lubricate the space between the inner and outer pieces of the locking mechanism. Hopefully this will resolve the issue.

Gene

[SkipD]

Gene, you could also use one of the lock de-icer products such a the HEET "Lock-Thaw" that's basically isopropyl alcohol with some sort of lubricant in it. I used that to rescue a combination lock on my shed after warming it to get it open the first time. The isopropyl alcohol will join with the remaining water and when you blow, wick, or shake the fluid out, the water comes with the alcohol. Do this a few times and it will be "dry".

[cosmicvoid]

Does anyone have intimate knowledge of the gas regulator's construction to tell me why snow all over it MAY have been the cause of the problem?I don't have intimate knowledge of the regulator, but diaphragm type regulators have a vent port, often just a tiny hole, to allow the diaphragm to flex freely (kind of like the vent port on a speaker cabinet). If that port is blocked, the regulator can't regulate.

[SkipD]

I don't have intimate knowledge of the regulator, but diaphragm type regulators have a vent port, often just a tiny hole, to allow the diaphragm to flex freely (kind of like the vent port on a speaker cabinet). If that port is blocked, the regulator can't regulate.That was precisely my thought (at least it was one of them :rolleyes: ) up front, but I'm hoping to find out WHERE such a hole [or other part(s) sensitive to either cold or packed snow] may be so that I can put a little "umbrella" over it and keep any future snowstorms from causing me the grief.

Thanks for the reply.

[johnc]

After my battery exploded, I took all the excellent ideas of mounting the battery outside the generator in a battery box. Only I mounted the battery in my basement in a marine battery box, ran #6 wires in watertite conduit (liquatite) from the battery out to the generator. Plus I'm using the Deltran 1.25 amp battery tender instead of Generac's charging system. Now I can easily check the voltage and water level and charging system in the comfort of the basement. That's a good idea of the snow baffle. I wonder if anyone has had problems with snow being pulled into the engine compartment. I would tend to think that the engine heat would prevent any problems, but never know until it's too late.