Frequency adjustment for 5244?

[imjohn]

Is there a procedure for adjusting the frequency on the 5244?

If so, can you describe the procedure?

My friend has a Fram vibrating reed frequency meter and I have always found them to be very accurate. It has a range from 58 to 62 hz and line checks right on 60hz.

His generator reads 58hz, but his book said not to adjust the governor, yet it says that the frequency should be at least 60hz.

Frequency was adjusted via the governor on the old generators that we used to televise golf tournaments, years ago. I thought it would be the same for the Centurian/Guardians.

[Kelly Myers]

The new model guardians with automatic governors are not adjustable. The PCB monitors frequency, and adjusts engine speed via the governor.

I've never witnessed a guardian with electronic governor running at 58HZ. Is the VOM you're using a True RMS?

[imjohn]

He's not using a VOM. He's using a tuned vibrating reed frequency meter. They are highly accurate, plus he checked it against the power company input and it reads right on 60hz.

[Dick Chimney]

Hello again,

Sorry for intruding in the middle of your conversation without being invited. My model is 5241 10KW with an electronic governor. I purchased a true RMS Multimeter as per Kelly?s prescription. My reading was 57.5~58.5 Hz without load, which is in the lower range of manual specs 57.5 ~ 59,5 Hz. The voltage reading was 248 ~ 250 V, which was in the higher end of the specs 247 ~ 249 V. Of course, before I measured the generator?s output, I had measured the Utility power, which had an almost perfect reading of 239V@60Hz. That convinced me that the multimeter was accurate enough to be trustworthy if Utility Power was considered the standard.

Unfortunately, when I loaded the generator, I did not see output frequency to be above 60 Hz as described by the manual. My reading was consistently around 58 Hz, which was very disturbing to me.:mad: The natural gas pressure was around 6.8? WC at that time. However, since the computer seemed to work just fine and all the other electric appliances also appeared OK, should I just drop my concern or should I worry? :confused: Please give me some guidance.

I think the governor works pretty well to keep the frequency fluctuation to be within 1 Hz.:) However, the set point is a little too low for my generator.

Dick Chimney, the quick drawer.

[Kelly Myers]

I've never seen a true 58HZ on a guardian generator. Normally they swing from 58.8-60.10 depending on the load they are under.

Any non-digitally controlled generator will yield some kind of HZ swing depending on the load.

Even though 58hz is lower then it should be, it should only effect UPS systems.

[Tripwire]

Hi kelly,

My generator that I purchaced from you - as you may ,or not may know - has been installed for about 2 weeks. I did check the voltage and hertz under no load, and at 50-60% load and I found the voltage to be correct - but the frequency to vary between 57 and 58 Hertz. I have used both a Techronics o-scope and a top of the line Fluke handheld VOM/Scope with the same results ( these were calibrated by my company 3 months ago)

Perhaps you can shed some light on the issue....

The first time my house went to generator - and recovered, some of my electronics ran fast by 10 minutes- as if they auto sensed the low hertz (50~58) from the generator, set themselves to "50 hertz that the rest of the world uses" and never went back to 60 hertz upon power recovery. It took several power on -off contitions to reset them.

Monday, the same thing occured, this time it freaked out my wine chiller and instead of cooling - it heats up to 90+ degrees, it is now toast and I will have to buy a new one:mad:

Also all my battery backups and power conditioners for my computers/servers and home theatre refuse to operate correctly while under generator power

Can you contact Guardian tech support for a resolution?

thanks for your help and great dealer tech support

Steve

[Kelly Myers]

Steve, what is your zip code? I will get a tech out there.

58hz should not destroy anything, but it will render UPS systems to an infinite on/off loop.

I have also forwarded this thread to guardian.

We test run all generators that we install locally, and I have not had one single generator running that low. The PCB may be telling it an improper speed to set at.

Sounds like your generator is running at 3480 instead of 3600 rpm's. Could it be lacking a sufficient fuel flow?

Your generator needs 245,000 BTU's @ .5psi

99% of the "problem generators" have some kind of fuel issue. This isn't always the case though .

[Kelly Myers]

Hi kelly,

My generator that I purchaced from you - as you may ,or not may know - has been installed for about 2 weeks. I did check the voltage and hertz under no load, and at 50-60% load and I found the voltage to be correct - but the frequency to vary between 57 and 58 Hertz. I have used both a Techronics o-scope and a top of the line Fluke handheld VOM/Scope with the same results ( these were calibrated by my company 3 months ago)

Perhaps you can shed some light on the issue....

The first time my house went to generator - and recovered, some of my electronics ran fast by 10 minutes- as if they auto sensed the low hertz (50~58) from the generator, set themselves to "50 hertz that the rest of the world uses" and never went back to 60 hertz upon power recovery. It took several power on -off contitions to reset them.

Monday, the same thing occured, this time it freaked out my wine chiller and instead of cooling - it heats up to 90+ degrees, it is now toast and I will have to buy a new one:mad:

Also all my battery backups and power conditioners for my computers/servers and home theatre refuse to operate correctly while under generator power

Can you contact Guardian tech support for a resolution?

thanks for your help and great dealer tech support

Steve


An update on Steves generator.
I spoke with him yesterday, and it appears the fuel pipe is severely undersized for the generator. His mechanical contractor ran a 3/4" conduit close to 40'. My math tells me this only allows 108,000 btu's when the generator needs to have 246,000 btu's.

Any update Steve?

[Tripwire]

Thanks for the D Square service number - they are coming out to troubleshoot my issue...

I had asked you last week about my UPS cycling on and off and you mentioned a "line interactive UPS may be required....I Mailed Triplite and asked them about my issue - here is there response

Dear Tripp Lite Customer:

Thank you for your recent inquiry.

Is it a pure sine wave generator? If not, then our UPS will just cycle on and then off and never recharge the battery. Ther UPS will eventually die.

For further assistance, please reply (with history) to TechSupport@TrippLite.com or phone us at 773-869-1233 (Monday through Thursday from 8:00AM to 6:00PM Central Standard Time or on Fridays from 8:00AM to 5:30PM).

Thank you for choosing Tripp Lite!
TechSupport@TrippLite.com
www.TrippLite.com
Phone: 773-869-1233

Tripp Lite
1111 W 35th Street
Chicago, IL 60609

Is the 16KW a sine wave or some other kind of generator

Thanks again for the help

Steve

[Kelly Myers]

"Sine Wave" Generators would be digitally controlled generators. Guardian liquid cooled models come with digital controllers. The air cooled do not.

Theres some frequency variation with all air cooled generators, and a entry level UPS system will cycle on/off constantly. If you can get something with a tolerance of 5%, you will be fine. These are normally referred to as line interactive, or ONLINE UPS systems.

They have the ability to filter the power rather then going to the battery backup.

[cosmicvoid]

I have a 4 month old 5283 (16KW), and I have observed the 58 Hz problem. After much research, I discovered that the speed of the generator is load dependent. At low loading, the average freq is about 58 Hz, increasing to 60 Hz as the load increases to full load. This action is programmed into the controller board.

I have no idea why Generac would use this variable speed control strategy, can anyone tell me? Who wants their clocks to run slow by 48 mins/day, just because your gen is lightly loaded?

I have found a simple way to remedy this issue, but I'm sure that it voids the warranty. But, then, I'd rather have a 60 Hz output, and take my chances with the reliability.

[Tripwire]

Hi kelly,

Did you get a reply back from Guardian about this issue? I had the folks you recomended (D-Square )cove out and test the generator and gas supply lines. They indicated 13 under full load which they said is ample for the gas.

They also tested the voltage and frequency under light load and under load they found the voltages to be correct but the frequency was 57 herts light load and full load at 60 hertz... the low frequency is affecting several items in my house.......

The tech said that he has seen this on every unit he has installed he also found the rear main seal is leaking...that will be covered under warrenty

Its not your fault, - its guardians for not making this known

Steve