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Dave Carney
October 20th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Last week my 4390-1 Guardian failed to start during a storm. I could hear the starter whirring but it was not engaging the flywheel and therefore could not start the engine. The generator sensed overcrank and went into limp mode. After a couple manual start attempts I finally got it started and it ran the 4 hours while the power was out. A couple of test starts afterwards, resulted in just whirring.

Checked the battery and connections, all good. Decided it was the starter. Got the manual out, it called out part # 0C3017. Online I found that part # was discontinued. I hear these 4390-1's had a lot of starter issues. I found the redesigned part to be 0E42710ESV. So, that's what I ordered. Spent a little more to get a genunie OEM unit. These starters are crazy expensive ($158 or more depending on where you go) compared to car starters. I could buy 4 for my Dodge van for the same money. Must be an economies of scale thing.

When I pulled the old starter I found some differences. First, the old one is an inch longer and has a rear support that the new one does not. I did not think though that this was too important, car starters don't generally have a rear support either and they do fine. The old one did not have the part # that the manual called out for, instead it showed part # 3 A07 rev E. ? Anyway, I took some critical measurments and it seemed like the new one would fit ok, so I installed it and it seems to work fine.

I would not call this job easy but it's not terrible either. I call easy, being able to get to the thing from the front and being able to see what you are doing. That's not the case here of course. It's on the back and for the most part you are working blind. Getting the new one in is much easier than getting the old one out (the new one is shorter and easier to manuever through the limited space). My tips and comments+

1) Metric bolts so have metric tools. Disconnect the battery, turn the unit to off before starting the project.

2) Generac used a wire tie around the old starter, in such a way that you need to cut that tie to get the old starter out.

3) The small red wire that goes with the positive cable on the starter lug carries the trickle charge of about 14 volts. I would recommend putting a piece of tape on it after it's removed and while you are fiddling around until you are ready to put it back on the new starter. Keeps you from getting minor sparking

4) On the rear support bracket for the old one, remove the small nut and also loosen the big bolt on the other end of the bracket so that you will have enough room to manuever the starter out of it's spot.

5) You'll need to rotate the starter around some to get it out through the limited space when you are trying to pull it out of the unit.

Thats about all, it's pretty straight forward. Some time soon I'm going to disassemble the old one and see what the problem is. It probably only had 250 cycles on it when it died. That's rediculous.

Pics of old and borrowed pic of new starter attached.

Dave Carney
October 20th, 2007, 08:35 PM
I disassembled the old one, the starter part of it looks fine and I cleaned and reassembled it. The solenoid however, does not seem to work on the bench. It's not serviceable, would have to be replaced. I'll just hang onto the thing just in case.

pcfrisch
October 21st, 2007, 05:28 PM
I had the same problem last year with my starter. These things must have doubled in price. I bought the new one (same number as yours) for around $90.00. Now you can't find them that cheap. I had a maintenace done by a "pro" right after the warranty ran out to see what they do and I asked him what he had seen go out on these generators and he mentioned the starters. By the way the $200.00 maintenance was basically an oil change...what a rip off.
I wonder if you can buy just the solenoids for these?

Dave Carney
October 21st, 2007, 06:58 PM
I have not found the solenoids available seperately. The aftermarket starters (sd-80's with the same part #) can still be had for about $115, which is still crazy high. The prices are so high, it almost sounds like gouging.

I'm hoping the new one lasts the life of the unit, it's a Delco Remy, they've made starters a long time....but, who knows.

Kelly Myers
October 22nd, 2007, 06:22 AM
I had the same problem last year with my starter. These things must have doubled in price. I bought the new one (same number as yours) for around $90.00. Now you can't find them that cheap. I had a maintenace done by a "pro" right after the warranty ran out to see what they do and I asked him what he had seen go out on these generators and he mentioned the starters. By the way the $200.00 maintenance was basically an oil change...what a rip off.
I wonder if you can buy just the solenoids for these?

As of right now, I have not found a supplier of the solenoids.

When you say he just did a oil change, is that literally what he did? So you can get an idea on what we do:

Supply and change Spark plugs
Supply and change air filter/pre filter
Supply and change oil and oil filter
Dispose of oil and oil filter
clean and wax generator
test transfer switch mechanism
Adjust fuel regulators
and most importantly, ADJUST AND SET VALVES!

We charge $225.00 for the once/year visit.

pcfrisch
October 22nd, 2007, 07:17 AM
Yes, it was a joke, all he did was change the oil, he didn't even use sythetic oil!.
I mentioned to him the frequency was a bit high (65HZ) and he adjusted the slow speed govenor. That is ALL he did, I got a bill for $200.00 a week later, go figure it was installed through Detroit Edison..I think I am going to have you guys come out. I did check one of the valves and cannot even get a feeler gauge in there at TDC.

Kelly Myers
October 22nd, 2007, 09:45 AM
I did check one of the valves and cannot even get a feeler gauge in there at TDC.

:eek:

Dave Carney
October 22nd, 2007, 11:15 AM
Yeah, thats not good. I mean if you can't get a feeler guage in there, then the valves may not even be closing all the way. Do you get a bunch of low level backfiring (coughing) and rpm uneveness?

Mine came from the factory that way on one of the two cylinders. I adjusted it back to spec.

pcfrisch
October 22nd, 2007, 12:33 PM
Yeah, thats not good. I mean if you can't get a feeler guage in there, then the valves may not even be closing all the way. Do you get a bunch of low level backfiring (coughing) and rpm uneveness?

Mine came from the factory that way on one of the two cylinders. I adjusted it back to spec.

a little backfiring and yes the rpm's are little uneven. I just called Ziller and arranged for a tune-up :D

Namvet34
October 22nd, 2007, 04:30 PM
When you say he just did a oil change, is that literally what he did? So you can get an idea on what we do:

Supply and change Spark plugs
Supply and change air filter/pre filter
Supply and change oil and oil filter
Dispose of oil and oil filter
clean and wax generator
test transfer switch mechanism
Adjust fuel regulators
and most importantly, ADJUST AND SET VALVES!

We charge $225.00 for the once/year visit.

Kelly,

When I was having generator problems in May of this year, I called the Guardian Elite dealership that you suggested to me.

After successfully resolving the original service issue on my Guardian model 5241, the technician recommended their annual service contract. The cost of the contract was $150 annually. It too, consisted of not much more than an oil change. The cost of the service did NOT include the cost of any of the materials needed to perform the maintenance, i.e., oil, oil filter, spark plugs, air filter/pre-filter or oil disposal. I was told that I could save some money by providing these materials myself. The service also does not appear to include adjustments to the fuel regulator.

I then asked about adjusting the valves. I was told that adjusting the valves was not a part of the annual maintenance service agreement. When I asked why not, the technician responded that once the engine leaves the factory the valves seldom needed to be adjusted. I then asked, if he didn't inspect the valve gap for proper clearance, how could he possibly know whether the valves were indeed, properly adjusted? He wasn't able to provide an answer. Adding water to my maintenance free battery, however, was included in the agreement.

I decided not to purchase the maintenance agreement.

Joggingguy
October 22nd, 2007, 04:52 PM
As of right now, I have not found a supplier of the solenoids.
Kelly, you might check with this guy: http://stores.ebay.com/Triodiode-DC-Electric-And-Tractor

I've bought alternator repair kits from him and he has a lot of starter components :)

MSLV70
October 25th, 2007, 07:55 AM
Kelly, $225 for the service you provide is awesome! Can you recommend an elite dealer in Richmond VA?

M Miller
October 25th, 2007, 08:54 AM
You may want to Give Richmond Generator (Anthony Oddo) a call at (800) 248-1472. He is a small Elite dealer that has been in business 3 years but he is very good and seems concerned with customer service. He just installed my generator and we are waiting on the gas company to change the meter before startup. He is also a Master Electrician. I will probably do my own service after the first year service he included in the install. He gave me a sheet on his service agreement and it is as follows:

Six Month Interval:

Visual Inspection
Running checks
Cleaning as needed
Voltage & Frequency Testing and Adjustment as needed

Once per Year:

Valve Adjustment as needed
Battery Replacement (yes you read correctly)
Oil - Mobil 1
Oil Filter
Spark Plugs
Air Filter
Air Pre Filter
Governor Adjustment
Test & Adjust fuel supply pressure
Internal Fuel Regulator Adjustment
Voltage & Frequency Adjustment as needed
Clean unit as needed
Visual Inspection
Running Check

He also gives a 10% discount on non warranty parts and labor and year round priority service with a technician on site within 2 hours.

Cost is $259 per year.

Hope this helps.

d11gnccer
March 20th, 2009, 03:53 PM
It's great to hear what you guys are including in service agreements. Thanks you guys. We are just now working on ours as we currently have 60-70 generators installed. Our annual service is $196.00 and has only been including synthetic oil, filter, plugs, air filter, pre filter, water in the battery, and checking hertz/voltage output.

Another service we are including in the agreement is to come out during extended outages and change oil/filter.

How long are your service techs on each checkout?