Defective rotor trashes the stator

[Mikey]

Well I finally found out why my unit would run for several seconds then shut down repeatedly. I had an open circuit on the rotor. After loosing all stator output, I found that I had an open rotor winding. I disassembled the generator to investigate and discovered that poor workmanship on the rotor winding connection had destroyed the stator. The rotor has a connection consisting of two wires twisted together for several inches and then laid over into the coil dope. This connection was poorly secured (allowing it to break free and fly outward due to centrifugal force) and it was too long (allowing it to extend past the outside diameter of the rotor). The end of this twisted wire pair then sliced through the stator as it spun. I've worked with motor, generator, etc windings for over twenty years in power plant maintenance. It was obvious what had happened as soon as I removed the outboard bearing carrier. The winding connection on the rotor had been left too long and was poorly secured. This connection failed after less than 60 hours of run time, including the weekly 12 minute test. Such a connection should always be clipped short enough that the distance from the last winding to the end of the wire cannot exceed the diameter of the core. The coil dope covering the rotor was also very thin at the point where the connection was folded over onto the coil. I believe I can successfully repair the rotor windings (correctly this time) but the stator is severely damaged. The stator will need to be replaced or re-wound. I can not justify $1400 for a new stator when the entire generator can be replaced for approximately double that amount. And I can not justify purchasing a new generator if it?s subject to such an extensive failure again. I do not believe that such a failure is acceptable after only 60 hours service. I was one of the first in my area to purchase and install a home standby generator, and I then convinced several of my neighbors and co-workers to buy the same model. I am beginning to regret my recommendation. As the local guy in my neighborhood who works for the power company, I usually help my neighbors with electrical repairs and I'm sure they're watching to see how this issue with my Generac gets resolved. This unit will be only three years old in few days. I have been told that the Generac Company has recently extended their parts warranty to three years on the new generators similar to mine. I have sent a message to Generac via their web site. Hopefully I will be able to get a real person on the phone somtime soon.
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[Kelly Myers]

Can you please email me your serial # and date of purchase to kelly@zillerelectric.com?

[Mikey]

I just sent you two emails Kelly.

[Mikey]

I have contacted Generac via their web site, spoke on the phone several times with a woman in the customer service department, and sent a hard copy letter with photos to the warranty department via Priority Mail. I was very pleasant and clear in my request. I simply asked that they help me with a replacement stator, ie: not make me pay full retail price through a dealer. I asked if they could warranty the less than three year old stator for me if I fixed the defective rotor myself and did all the labor myself and promised not to whine about the battery blow ups. I then asked if they could sell me a stator at their cost.

The folks at Generac were also very pleasant and clear in their responses. Once you buy a Generac product, you are on your own. Period. You are not even allowed to speak with the warranty department (mail only) or with a supervisor in the customer service department unless you are a dealer. Period. Those of us who went to a Home Depot and then installed the unit ourselves, basically waived any respect we would have gotten had we gone the convential route with a local electrical contractor. Wow.

If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would not spend $1400 on one replacement part for a generator that can be replaced in its entirety for $2800. Seriously, the exact unit is now called a "Watchdog" instead of "Guardian" and can be had for $2800 delivered to my door. Wow again.

Its such a shame too. Without any exageration, I can say that I "sold" at least four other Generac units to my neigbors in the fall of 2004. People came by and watched me demonstrate my unit and then believed me when I told them they wanted one like mine rather than the gas powered portables that you see buzzing away on porches during a power outage.

I would be happy if the Generac folks called me just to say "We got your letter and we're looking into it". And I would be absolutely thrilled if they called and said "We can meet you half-way on this and sell you a stator for 500 bucks".

Hmm....sixty hours at half load. Guess I was just too hard on it!

Mikey

[Kelly Myers]

Mikey, Did you provide me with your serial number and model number?

Email it to me kelly@zillerelectric.com

I lost ALL my emails when my (2 month old computers) hard drive crashed. I lost a lot of information.

I'll see what I can do for you.

[Mikey]

Kelly
I sent some emails but apparently they got lost. Sorry to hear of your computer trouble - been there. Thanks for any help you can give.

Serial Number 3912639
Model 04456-3 12KW
Warranty Case Number 28860

I just today sent an email to the secretary of Mr. William Treffert the CEO of Generac. She told me on the phone that she would see to it that he read the email. I got extremely lucky and managed to get her on the phone. I explained in my email that he may want to consider the possibility that this condition is generic to all the rotors in this production run, and that maybe they should issue a service bulletin to their dealers.

Mikey

[Mikey]

The CEO's secretary Debbie just called me this afternoon and said that Generac was sending me a free replacement stator. Alrighty then !. I let you all know how things went when I receive my box in the mail...
Mikey

[Kelly Myers]

The CEO's secretary Debbie just called me this afternoon and said that Generac was sending me a free replacement stator. Alrighty then !. I let you all know how things went when I receive my box in the mail...
Mikey

Glad to hear it. I had also emailed the proper people a copy of your situation, including all the info you emailed me. I'm happy to see you were taken care of!

[Mikey]

I received a new stator and a new rotor last night from Generac. They took care of me. I am now a happy camper again. I have not closely inspected everything yet, so I may have to terminate a few leads etc etc, but the big stuff is here and thats all I was worried about.

[Kelly Myers]

I received a new stator and a new rotor last night from Generac. They took care of me. I am now a happy camper again. I have not closely inspected everything yet, so I may have to terminate a few leads etc etc, but the big stuff is here and thats all I was worried about.

If you need any other parts, let me know, I can ship them right out to you. I'd wouldn't hurt to replace the brushes while you're in that far, unless yours look to be in perfect shape!


I'm Happy Guardian took care of you.

[gordon m]

what is the e-mail address of mr treffert. please.....

[tdcmoto]

I purchased my Model 04675-3 from a person who could not have a generator because of his homeowners association.The unit has never been run.
I have had the generator for 2 years now and recently had a Gas line installed.
So I bought the battery hooked up the gas line and started her up she ran for about 20 seconds then I heard a crackling noise from the generator side then it shut off.
Oil was good I checked compression which was good(I am a Harley Davidson Master Tech)
Now the motor will not turn over Like something is binding and the starter clutch is just spinning

I am in the process of teardown and I found a piece of wire behind the fan which looks to me like a piece of rotor or stator windings,
I will post pics when I get the stator off
This is the 1st time this generator has been started.
Will the generator shut off if there is a problem with the stator or rotor
Thanks in advance for your reply

[vet327]

repairyes, the winding let loose and its all locked up. Happened to me on a brand new unit last year ,not cheap to replace!

[tdcmoto]

Well I pulled the stator + rotor off only to find that the rotor windings are damaged and 2 of the zip ties were broken at the motor side and it looks to me that the rotor was hitting the stator on one side of the armature
The 1st pic is what I found before dissasembly (chewed up wire)
The rest are the damaged parts.
I wonder how these are tested at the factory as this motor has only ran for maybe a couple of minutes,
I will call Generac and see if they can do anything for me as this is an assembly defect for sure

Has anyone seen this before??
Model 46753
Serial # 4357428

[tdcmoto]

I spoke to Katie at Generac who was very nice and understanding
She took all my info and said someone would get back to me and gave me a case # 98347
I work for Harley Davidson in Florida and HD has a Customer care program for people who are out of warranty and have problems like this, our motto is "If its the right thing to do then do the right thing"
I hope Generac has something similar as both companies are in Wisconsin I hope they have the same morals and customer care as Harley Davidson does
We will see.

[tdcmoto]

Generac called back and I explained what happened
I know I am not under warranty and asked if the company could help me out as although it is not a new generator is basically is new in my opinion,as this is the first time she has been run.
He said to have a dealer diagnose the problem.
I took the stator and rotor to a local dealer and showed them the parts they basically said yep you need a new rotor when I showed the Tech the stator he looked at the Zip ties and a piece of the zip tie broke off in his hand.
Then I called another Elite dealer and told them what happened he said they would come out and diagnose the problem for around $200.
I explained I new what had failed and why should I spend more money when I know what parts I need to replace.
I will email Generac again
I have 3 broken Zip Ties on my stator and wonder if parts of these were sucked in between the rotor and stator when I started her up causing this damage.
How many zip ties should be on the stator as I have 8 and 3 came apart and half of one is missing
I hope Generac can help me out with a deal on parts or at least give me an explanation

[BBB]

WOW, zip ties holding a stator together. Thats interesting engineering. It almost seems that they are designed to fail. How many others have had this issue?

[tdcmoto]

Andrew from Generac got back to me on this issue.

I sent him pics and explained that the dealers need $190 for a service call / diagnostic visit which is not unreasonable if they were going to tear down the generator and find out what the problem was.

But I have already done this, and cannot justify the cost of having a tech come out for a few minutes just to tell me I need a new rotor & stator.

I asked him to look at the pics and offered to send the parts to them at my expense if I can get an explanation as to why this happened.And also to see if he could help me out with some of the parts for the repair.
Will see what happens next

[DanB]

Andrew from Generac got back to me on this issue.
(snip)
Will see what happens next

keep us posted, curious minds want to know

[d11gnccer]

I'm and HVAC tech and can't recall how many zip ties have fallen apart it my hand they I was tracing out wires in units. Were these covered in any type of shellac?